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Thread: USA abstains on Vote Against Israel

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by broscoenRiad View Post
    Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law.
    There's always a problem with using all or always because if only one example of that is not true then it renders the entire statement wrong, now you said "Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law." that's not true in fact the term illegal is a modern term applied to Judea/Samaria/Gaza.

    Prior to Oslo the land was called "disputed", not sovereign land to anyone, the proposed Arab State of 1947 (Partition of Palestine), the Jordanian Occupation State of 1948 or Israel post 1967, with some debate the Eastern side of Jerusalem was sovereign at least defacto sovereign to Israel although not Internationally recognized as such.

    Without going through this documenthttp://www.usip.org/sites/default/fi...t_09282005.pdf

    is there any specific language that says "Illegal Settlements" I don't think you'll find it, why because they were not illegal settlements, they (Judea/Samaria/Gaza and Golan) were disputed territory.

    Certainly if the UN held the Settlements illegal it would have called them illegal in the Oslo Accords document.

    You can't even call Judea/Samaria/ Jerusalem occupied, because under the definition of Occupied territory it had to belong to someone and the Palistos were not sovereign, Jordan was not sovereign with only Great Britain and I believe Pakistan recognizing the sovereignty of Jordan.

    The term West Bank is a Jordanian creation of a name prior to the illegal occupation of the land west of the Jordan it was called Judea and Samaria in UN documents, so the concept of a West Bank is bs.
    Lastly, any part of Jerusalem was not supposed to be Arab, it was to be part of the Partition of Palestine which the Arabs rejected in 1947, the city of Jerusalem was to be an International City until 10 years after the agreed by both sides Partition of Palestine at the end of 10 years there would be a vote and that vote would settle who Jerusalem would belong to, either the Jewish State or the Arab State.

    So your "Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law." is incorrect.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 02-01-2017 at 07:04 AM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by broscoenRiad View Post
    Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law.
    As if "international law" mattered to you.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    There's always a problem with using all or always because if only one example of that is not true then it renders the entire statement wrong, now you said "Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law." that's not true in fact the term illegal is a modern term applied to Judea/Samaria/Gaza.

    Prior to Oslo the land was called "disputed", not sovereign land to anyone, the proposed Arab State of 1947 (Partition of Palestine), the Jordanian Occupation State of 1948 or Israel post 1967, with some debate the Eastern side of Jerusalem was sovereign at least defacto sovereign to Israel although not Internationally recognized as such.

    Without going through this documenthttp://www.usip.org/sites/default/fi...t_09282005.pdf

    is there any specific language that says "Illegal Settlements" I don't think you'll find it, why because they were not illegal settlements, they (Judea/Samaria/Gaza and Golan) were disputed territory.

    Certainly if the UN held the Settlements illegal it would have called them illegal in the Oslo Accords document.

    You can't even call Judea/Samaria/ Jerusalem occupied, because under the definition of Occupied territory it had to belong to someone and the Palistos were not sovereign, Jordan was not sovereign with only Great Britain and I believe Pakistan recognizing the sovereignty of Jordan.

    The term West Bank is a Jordanian creation of a name prior to the illegal occupation of the land west of the Jordan it was called Judea and Samaria in UN documents, so the concept of a West Bank is bs.
    Lastly, any part of Jerusalem was not supposed to be Arab, it was to be part of the Partition of Palestine which the Arabs rejected in 1947, the city of Jerusalem was to be an International City until 10 years after the agreed by both sides Partition of Palestine at the end of 10 years there would be a vote and that vote would settle who Jerusalem would belong to, either the Jewish State or the Arab State.

    So your "Israeli settlements were always illegal under international law." is incorrect.
    You say no such thing as Palestine legally owned these territories you call disputed, but when has a state called Israel in recent times ever had these areas for Israel to claim a dispute for them ?

    If you claim Palestinians don't have a sovereign right to these territories than at the very least the Jordanians if not the Brits should take ownership, failing that the Ottomans ?

    Why do you have a right to them ? Because your book says so ? The Palestinians do not recognize your book as an authority on these matters .
    Last edited by broscoenRiad; 08-01-2017 at 09:57 AM.
    ''We aren't dealing with regime change either unilaterally nor through taking part in political conspiracies'' - Russia FM Lavrov

  5. #44
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    "Palestine" is an artificial and colonial construct the Romans initially came up with, it has no legitimacy whatsoever... Much like Syria.

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    For the sake of argument I will go along with what you say .

    But where is Israels sovereign right to occupy these areas and how can they be considered disputed if Israel never owned or governed these areas ?

    And even if you have a right to dispute these areas , where is your right to colonise and populate the disputed areas ?

    And if you dispute these areas why did you give up Gaza ?
    ''We aren't dealing with regime change either unilaterally nor through taking part in political conspiracies'' - Russia FM Lavrov

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    Quote Originally Posted by broscoenRiad View Post
    You say no such thing as Palestine legally owned these territories you call disputed, but when has a state called Israel in recent times ever had these areas for Israel to claim a dispute for them ?

    If you claim Palestinians don't have a sovereign right to these territories than at the very least the Jordanians if not the Brits should take ownership, failing that the Ottomans ?

    Why do you have a right to them ? Because your book says so ? The Palestinians do not recognize your book as an authority on these matters .
    Since there has never ever been an independent sovereign entity called Palestine there could be no claims from it.
    The entire area was sovereign Ottoman land prior to 1918 it was ceded to the victorious Allies of WWI who gave the land over to Mandates along with Lebanon, Syria, and Mesopotamia (Iraq) in 1920 at San Remo Italy. The Reconstituted Homeland for the Jewish People was to be in Mandate Palestine which in 1920 included the Golan Heights.
    The British separated 75% of Mandate Palestine and gave it to the Arabs as well as lopping off the Golan Heights and gave it to the French for the Syrian Mandate which latter created the Mandate for Lebanon.
    So you can see that the “disputed territories” never belong to Palestine because the Mandated Palestine was given mostly to the Arabs, (Hashemite CisJordan) and never to any other group, the White Paper of 1922 confirms this as well as the Mandate for Palestine of 1922 and the Anglo-American Treaty of 1924.
    Let’s step ahead to your “Your Book” that’s good, I thought Islam did, in fact, there’s much said that Islam does, frankly their religion and books say one thing and then another I pay little attention unless they and their beliefs interfere with civilization.
    Now what Palistos say or think is not my concern at best they are loyal citizens of the Jewish State, live in peace, pay their share of tax, do service, including serving in the IDF , the rest can get the Hxx out and find someplace else to live in harmony or destroy either way they are finished as a cause.
    We embark on a new world their would be Haman is soon gone, their providers of evil are out of power and doubtfully are gone from US power for decades.


    Palistos have NO sovereignty in Judea and Samaria by any standards certainly not by Oslo or even any UN standards, to be sovereign you need to be independent and the Palistos still are dependent on Israel a travesty for sure.


    The British gave up the Mandate 60 plus years ago, the Turks nearly 90 years ago, neither had any Rights except by war, the Arabs have no more rights than the two, all by war and occupation.
    Since I am a direct descendant of those Crusaders who marched on Jerusalem in 1099 and throughout all Nine Crusades, perhaps all belongs to me and I say give it to the Jews, I’ll take a few pieces of property and the rest goes to the Jews, I think that’s fair and the best course of action.
    The names of the “disputed area” have been called Judea /Samaria for thousands of years even in UN declarations and documents, they don’t call them Arabia or Hashemitea or some other fabricated name, you need to understand the history.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 09-01-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broscoenRiad View Post
    For the sake of argument I will go along with what you say .

    But where is Israels sovereign right to occupy these areas and how can they be considered disputed if Israel never owned or governed these areas ?

    And even if you have a right to dispute these areas , where is your right to colonise and populate the disputed areas ?

    And if you dispute these areas why did you give up Gaza ?
    Gaza was a political decision by Bush as well as Sharon but the Rights to Gaza were never given up forever and the one day when the Palistos have the balls to go to war and the US does not stop the war, Israel will stomp these b@stards and there will be no more talk.
    The land was given to the Jews in International Law at San Remo 1920 and Jews can live wherever they wish in that land according to International Law of Mandate for Palestine and the Anglo-American, there is no colonization that's the foreign term reserved for the Arab invaders and their squatter descendants.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 09-01-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Apparently Trump is doing what you've predicted word for word!


    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    What occurred today with Obama's fleeting opportunities to do his evil is not unexpected and should be seen as the opportunity to make a great change.
    First, Obama is leaving and Trump could be President for four years or eight years and Pence could be President for eight years.
    During that four years, the deal with Iran will be over, there will be no Iran hegemony in the ME in fact what I think is going to happen is the dawn of Israeli hegemony over the ME.
    I think this because of the nature of the times and Trump as well as Pence as Zionists.
    Both see Israel as the only capeable bulwark of Western values.
    The US Embassy will be moving to Jerusalem that is in direct opposition to President Harry S. Truman’s demand that Tel-Aviv will be the location for its Embassy.
    Jerusalem has only been the capitol of the Jews and the short-lived Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, it was never a capitol for anyone else, it became a city or part of a territory for nearly 2,000 years, it was never legally part of the proposed Arab State or the illegally annexed part of the Kingdom of Jordan.
    Jerusalem was to be an International city from 1946 to 1956, then a vote and the vote would decide whose country would it belong to.
    All of that was decided by others which came to an end with the Partition of Palestine and the Arabs said No the Jews said Yes.

    So what happened today, a couple views, one that the UN does not recognize Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, but who does it belong to in their view. It should not be considered part of the so-called Palestine of a two-State solution because it was not ever part of an Arab State, it would have to be an International city with some sort of vote as in the failed Partition of Palestine.
    However, what of the American Embassy move, Does the USA place its embassies in cities that are not the capitol of that country.
    I think you’ll find that the United States of America only builds in Embassies in the capitals of those countries, further that when Trump moves the Embassy of the USA, he is saying that the USA recognizes Jerusalem and it’s neighborhood as part of sovereign Israel, putting the USA and Israel at loggerheads with the UN.
    ? ? ?

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    I don't get visions Ali, but I do have a sense of things that will happen. Since I have posted much of it on this forum and the previous Cedars, it's easy to verify.
    I am at the start of preparing myself for my final move to Akko in the North of Israel, I think the stones may speak to me and I'll be closer to hear them.
    I hope all goes well, although you're not on my list of 29 friends I've always considered you a formidable adversary that deserves respect much like Jimmy 55, who I do miss very much.
    Its good to see you today, I wish there was the action that we all once had but times change. Take care.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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  14. #50
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    The thanks is not about your move to Akko $
    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    I don't get visions Ali, but I do have a sense of things that will happen. Since I have posted much of it on this forum and the previous Cedars, it's easy to verify.
    I am at the start of preparing myself for my final move to Akko in the North of Israel, I think the stones may speak to me and I'll be closer to hear them.
    I hope all goes well, although you're not on my list of 29 friends I've always considered you a formidable adversary that deserves respect much like Jimmy 55, who I do miss very much.
    Its good to see you today, I wish there was the action that we all once had but times change. Take care.
    ? ? ?

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