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Thread: USA abstains on Vote Against Israel

  1. #11
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    My response (part two)

    Permits and fairness, indeed what needs to be done is to go through each and every neighborhood including the Old City and require proof of ownership, once that is accomplished then examine all alterations to the property top make sure they were permitted properly we’ll start the deeded process and chain of title with the earliest occupant, all title deeds or recorded instruments that are proved to be genuine will be examined, those properties that are not properly deeded will be dealt with according to Israeli Law, not Ottoman or Jordanian.Fair it will be, very very fair rest assured.
    Now for your “ Get in touch with your Christian side, Sam.”
    I suggest the swipe should be carried over to the Theology part and call it what you wish, I’d call it Why Jesus is not the Messiah or Why I don’t believe in the myth of Who Jesus was.
    Now I happen to like the holiday, it’s not my holiday although I have actually enjoyed Christmas Dinner at the American Colony Hotel in the so-called “Eastern Side “ as you put it a 10-minute walk from the Old City and btw my very favorite hotel (The American Colony Hotel)
    when I travel to Jerusalem for holidays. I recommend the Christmas Pudding with hard sauce and the small but talented string group and singers from nearby Bethlehem if they still do that.
    The Jewish Messiah has several dozen pre-qualifications most of these with one exception have been having been twisted and reconfigured by people like you who do not speak any Hebrew and have no knowledge of the Jewish faith, however, there have been apostate Jews who for their own reasons have assisted in this fraud. Sadly these Apostate Jews also assisted in the persecution and murder of their former co-religionist under the direction of the Church. (see Disputations)


    But, I will limit the discussion to one pillar of your belief that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, I will further expand to any Jew being the Messiah, because the Jews believe that the Messiah has not come, ever, so he must fulfill certain prerequisite requirements and I will limit it to just one, that being he must be
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    My response (part three)


    I like to recycle and this i posted long ago.
    " The Davidic line (also referred to as the House of David) (known in Hebrew as Malkhut Beit David (מלכות בית דוד) – "Kingdom of the House of David") refers to the tracing of lineage to the King David referred to in the Hebrew Bible and in the New Testament. The term "House of David" referring to the Davidic dynasty appears many times in the Bible" Wikipedia" He was not descended from the House of David. According to Jewish law, tribal identification comes from the father's side, being Jewish, from the mother's side. According to Matthew 1, Joseph was descended from David (Although there are many contradictions between his genealogy there and that listed in Luke, however, according to the same text, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary, therefore Jesus was not related to Joseph, and not a descendant of King David."


    http://ohr.edu/ask/ask00j.htm#...


    So enough of your lies
    descendants based on word of God goes by father not mother.
    adoption Cohen cannot be Cohen based on adoption
    inheritance is past down through the Fathers side




    But your tribal affiliation


    I was wondering if you could address and refute these claims made by Jews against Jesus being the Messiah: "The Messiah must be from the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10). Under Jewish law, tribal affiliation is conferred through the birth father only (Numbers 1:18-44,34:14,Leviticus 24:10) (Criterion for being the Messiah is not met – in Christianity, Jesus has no human father – therefore he had no tribal affiliation. Jesus not being from the tribe of Judah is eliminated from messianic consideration)." "The Messiah must be from the House of David (Jeremiah 33:17-20,1 Chronicles 17:11-12). This affiliation is conferred through the father and Matthew 1 and Luke 3 attempt to trace Jesus’ lineage through Joseph back to King David. However, according to the Gospels "the holy spirit" not Joseph was Jesus’ father (Matthew 1:1. Tribal and family affiliations of this type can not be claimed by adoption (Numbers 1:18-44,34:14; Leviticus 24:10) and at any rate there is no indication in the Christian scriptures that Joseph ever adopted Jesus under Jewish law (Criterion not met – Jesus eliminated from messianic consideration)." "The Messiah must be from the seed of Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-16,Psalms 89:29-38,1 Chronicles 17:11-14,22:9-10,28:6-7). Matthew indeed claims that Jesus was descended through Solomon.

    However, Luke claimed that Jesus descended through Nathan, David’s other son (who was not king). This eliminates Jesus’ genealogy through Luke.
    The problem with the claim that Luke’s genealogy is actually that of Mary is that Mary is not mentioned in Luke’s genealogy. Even if it was the genealogy of Mary this is meaningless as Jewish law only recognizes tribal affiliation through the father (Numbers1:1


    He must be a member of the tribe of Judah – “The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)
    To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
    He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son – “And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)


    Strangely the proselytizer evangelist who is ever ready to explain the Hebrew and it's translation in Tanak (Hebrew Bible) is silent on the New Testament.


    These folks will speak ad infinitum on the nuance of mistranslation on how the Messiah is Jesus and all of this is found in the Jews Bible. The proselytizers of Jews spend tens of millions of dollars yearly to convert Jews but they have no answer that Jesus cannot be the messiah of the Jews because he is not a descendant of King David and the New Testament says as much by the genealogies provided by Luke and Matthew indeed the conception that Jesus's father is God tell us so.

    The Messiah of the Jews must be a lineal descendant of King David and that only comes through the paternal male tribe side not by adoption and not through the mother.
    The fatal flaw in the thinking of the Evangelistic proselytizer of the Jews.
    Why do the Jews reject Jesus?

    Jews believe when the Messiah comes there will be a Messianic Age.
    This Messianic Age has a number of miraculous occurrences some may say we are at the beginning of that Age.

    Why wouldn't Jews recognize Jesus as their Messiah?
    Firstly, the Messiah must be a direct descendant of David.

    Who is the Messiah:
    Isaiah 11 : 1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots.2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. 3 And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD, and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears;

    So what is the genealogy of Jesus there are two distant family trees that do not agree.

    Lets see what they are

    Matthews list Matthew 1 ........Lukes list (in inverse order) Luke chapter 3:23
    David............... David
    Solomon .............................Nathan
    Rehoboam........................ Mattatha
    Abijah...... ......................... Menna
    Asa ...................................Melea
    Jehoshaphat...................... Eliakim
    Jehoram............................Jonam
    Uzziah............................ Joseph
    Jotham.. ..........................Judah
    Ahaz................................ Simeon
    Hezekiah........... ................Levi
    Manasseh...........................Matthat
    Amon...............................Jorim
    Josiah..............................Eliezer
    Jeconiah........ .................Joshua
    Shealtiel......................... . Er
    Zerubbabel........ ... ............Elmadam
    Abiud . ............................Cosam
    Eliakim . ............. .............Addi
    Azor ? ? ............................Melki
    Zakok . ...........................Neri
    Akim . ...........................Shealtiel
    Eliud . ..........................Zerubbabel
    Eleazar .........................Rhesa
    Matthan.. ......................Joanan
    Jacob.. ..........................Joda
    Joseph (husband of Mary)... Josech
    Jesus.................... ........Semein
    ..................................Mattathias
    ....................................Maath
    ...................................Naggai
    .....................................Esli
    ...................................Nahum
    ...................................Amos
    ...................................Mattathias
    ...................................Joseph
    ...................................Jannai
    ....................................Melki
    ....................................Levi
    ...................................Matthat
    ...................................Heli (said to be Marys line)
    ..................................Joseph
    ...................................Jesus ("the son, so it was thought, of Joseph")


    (*I believe I have these genealogies as presented are correct*)


    The King James Only school believe that their bible is sole English bible is without error or fault in all its teaching; Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact, in other words infallible.

    So if the Bible is inerrant how is this possible.
    People as we see in these threads, use the Jews Bible to convict them (the Jews) that Jesus is their God and Messiah and they the Jews rejected Jesus as he was prophesied in the Tanak (Hebrew Bible) but they the New Testament is at odds with itself, something is wrong here.

    The Jews Bible (Tanak) says that the Messiah will be the direct descendant of King David that he shall be called Messiah son of David.

    Here's the problem Jesus as the Evangelicals say is the son of God not of David, so the requirement that the Hebrew Bible (Tanak) as found in Isaiah:11-1 and 2 do not work.

    If Jesus father is God then God is not the son or descendant of David.


    Now you will see the apologetic evangelist tell you that

    1) After Jesus was born all these requirements were fulfilled or they ceased to have any viability.The problem with that is that the Hebrew Bible or what Evangelists self-promoting interpretations are the basis of why the Jews should believe that Jesus is their Messiah and God.


    2) Perhaps he will not use this, maybe he will say that Yes the genealogies do not agree but Lukes genealogy of Jesus does show a direct line to King David.

    The problem with this is that the line to David is not from the mother or Mary or maternal line but from the fathers or paternal line.

    The Tribe is always from the father not from the mother. The maternal line shows that the child is a Jew but not what Tribe.


    3) Maybe he will not use this but say that the father's line is established by Joseph and since Joseph was his adoptive father or guardian then by adoption an adoptive son inherits the father's tribe.
    The answer is no, a child can inherit material possessions but cannot inherit a claim to be a Cohen, Levy or to be a descendant of David.




    The Tanak is explicit on these matters.




    **I welcome discussion, I welcome debate, don't send me a website to express yourself, don't offer me a copy paste article and make it yours, don't post me a video and tell me I should watch it and please if you wish to quote me do not manufacture words and attribute them to me.**


    *Let's have a real debate, let's do battle with ideas that are your own or your interpretation of what other learned men have said.*
    Last edited by Samaritan; 25-12-2016 at 07:05 AM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    My response (part three)


    I like to recycle and this i posted long ago.
    " The Davidic line (also referred to as the House of David) (known in Hebrew as Malkhut Beit David (מלכות בית דוד) – "Kingdom of the House of David") refers to the tracing of lineage to the King David referred to in the Hebrew Bible and in the New Testament. The term "House of David" referring to the Davidic dynasty appears many times in the Bible" Wikipedia" He was not descended from the House of David. According to Jewish law, tribal identification comes from the father's side, being Jewish, from the mother's side. According to Matthew 1, Joseph was descended from David ...
    The Tanak is explicit on these matters.
    Is it?! Let's go to Torah.

    I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” - Gen 3:15

    NOTICE that the Moshiach comes through the WOMAN, the female line.

    The Lineage in Luke Chapter 3 is through Mary's line. The Heli mentioned is Joseph's FATHER-in-LAW. So the rest of the line is through Mary who has DAVID in her bloodline.

    As for the "supposed inconsistency", here is the answer:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+3&version=KJV


    Your question has a simple answer, but one that’s not apparent from Scripture. In Biblical times there was no word for father-in-law, just as there was no word for grandfather. Joseph can’t be the son of both Jacob and Heli. According to the Jerusalem Talmud (Chag. 77,4), Heli was actually Mary’s father making him Joseph’s father-in-law. The reason the two genealogies are different is that Joseph was descended from Solomon while Mary was a descendant of Solomon’s older brother Nathan.
    Further analyisis

    So Joseph and Mary were actually cousins although many times removed. Since Heli had no sons, Mary had to find a husband from the tribe of Judah like herself to protect her father’s estate.(See Numbers 36) She also needed a direct descendant of Solomon to perfect her son’s claim to the throne of David, since Nathan’s descendants weren’t of the Royal line.

    Joseph fit the bill on both accounts but like every other descendant of Solomon’s carried a blood curse disqualifying any biological son of his from ever being King of Israel.(Jeremiah 22:28-30) Since Joseph was not the Lord’s biological father, he could adopt Him, qualifying Him to be King without passing Him the curse.


    Thus, because of the virgin birth, Jesus became the only one in Israel qualified to sit on David’s throne, and remains so to this day.
    Any descendent of David through the Male line would carry a curse. Jeremiah 28-30. So it had to come through the female line.
    Last edited by CuriousAmerican; 25-12-2016 at 10:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali_81 View Post
    loool
    Feeling nervous ya metwali?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican View Post
    Is it?! Let's go to Torah.

    I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” - Gen 3:15

    NOTICE that the Moshiach comes through the WOMAN, the female line.

    The Lineage in Luke Chapter 3 is through Mary's line. The Heli mentioned is Joseph's FATHER-in-LAW. So the rest of the line is through Mary who has DAVID in her bloodline.

    As for the "supposed inconsistency", here is the answer:



    Further analyisis



    Any descendent of David through the Male line would carry a curse. Jeremiah 28-30. So it had to come through the female line.
    That's a load of crap.
    You cannot answer so you deflect, sorry the qualification is clear, and cannot be changed to suit you or Christianity, you lost and you are defeated, but go believe in what you wish it makes no difference but understand that the qualifications for Messiah cannot and will not be fked with.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican View Post
    I will trust the right wing General Arieh Edad on this matter before your sources.

    Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Channukah. Get in touch with your Christian side, Sam.
    I like believing in God not what felt good to sooth pagan ego's and gain followers with pagan beliefs..
    Edad is mistaken but then again real scholarship never ever has much effect on you, you enjoy myth too much, Jesus as the Jewish messiah and the false story you've been pushing for years neither has truth.
    But you have been answered truthfully and factually.
    Now you go peddle your myths someplace else you got dat Elmer.




    PS it's


    One N not two.




    Last edited by Samaritan; 25-12-2016 at 02:15 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    I like believing in God not what felt good to sooth pagan ego's and gain followers with pagan beliefs..
    If you believe present Jewish practice is true. Where did the kippot/yarmulke come from? Ain't in the Torah or Tenach. Is it?

    Isa 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Isaiah told you, right here, to go by Scripture ... not tradition. So where did the kippot come from?

    Christianity is not pagan; but I suspect the kippot is of pagan origin.

    Here is another verse:

    Isa 7:4 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin [almah] will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel [God with us].

    Now every other use of the word almah means virgin. So why do you deny it means a virgin? Even the Rabbis, in the 3rd century BC, translated the word virgin (
    parthenos) in the Jewish Septuagint, The Rabbis of the 3rd century BC were closer to biblical Hebrew. So why don't you accept the Rabbi's translation? Do you think some after-the-fact commentary by Jews for Judaism is more competent than ancient sages?!

    But here is the video, by a Jew in Israel, who explains some more:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqkMrEcpjEU&t=1m50s (Set to the right time) 1 min 50secs


    Gen 24:43 — Isaac's future wife Rebekah is "the maiden/virgin [almah]

    What Rebekah's wife not a virgin?

    But if that does not impress you. Why would a young woman conceiving be a sign? That is normal. However, a virgin conceiving?! NOW THAT'S A SIGN.

    But lets go to the Jewish Publication Society.

    They translate Gen 24:43 as maiden, which means virgin

    Gen 24:43 Behold, I am standing by the water fountain. When a maiden comes out to draw [water], I will say to her, 'Please, give me a little water to drink from your pitcher.'



    Last edited by CuriousAmerican; 25-12-2016 at 04:19 PM.

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    Cite one Rabbinical scholar and source that says the messiah of the Jews will be descended from the House of King David through the mother's line (matriarchically which is what you claim, instead of what I claim, through the father or patriarchically)..
    Cite the source and the passage, no creations of biblical texts are needed only their learned opinion of the traditional Rabbi and traditional Jewish source is needed.
    If you cannot produce this then what you claim is a lie.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 26-12-2016 at 12:00 AM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousAmerican View Post
    If you believe present Jewish practice is true. Where did the kippot/yarmulke come from? Ain't in the Torah or Tenach. Is it?

    Isa 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Isaiah told you, right here, to go by Scripture ... not tradition. So where did the kippot come from?

    Christianity is not pagan; but I suspect the kippot is of pagan origin.

    Here is another verse:

    Isa 7:4 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin [almah] will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel [God with us].

    Now every other use of the word almah means virgin. So why do you deny it means a virgin? Even the Rabbis, in the 3rd century BC, translated the word virgin (
    parthenos) in the Jewish Septuagint, The Rabbis of the 3rd century BC were closer to biblical Hebrew. So why don't you accept the Rabbi's translation? Do you think some after-the-fact commentary by Jews for Judaism is more competent than ancient sages?!

    But here is the video, by a Jew in Israel, who explains some more:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqkMrEcpjEU&t=1m50s (Set to the right time) 1 min 50secs


    Gen 24:43 — Isaac's future wife Rebekah is "the maiden/virgin [almah]

    What Rebekah's wife not a virgin?

    But if that does not impress you. Why would a young woman conceiving be a sign? That is normal. However, a virgin conceiving?! NOW THAT'S A SIGN.

    But lets go to the Jewish Publication Society.

    They translate Gen 24:43 as maiden, which means virgin

    Gen 24:43 Behold, I am standing by the water fountain. When a maiden comes out to draw [water], I will say to her, 'Please, give me a little water to drink from your pitcher.'



    Off topic Elmer.

    Last edited by Samaritan; 26-12-2016 at 12:02 AM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

  10. #20
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    I always believed that Obama is one of the best things that has happened to USA ...
    Obama single handedly had shown what kind of crap liberalism is and also how far gone Democrat party has become.

    Paradoxically, I think Obama's abstention from UNSC vote will yield positive results for Israel as well.
    Israel will be compelled to leave UN, Which also means that Israel will be able to build anywhere Israel wants and as much as Israel wants.

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