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Thread: How to create a terrorist?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post


    You still fail to understand that the liturgy of telling Christians every week for 2,000 years has consequences and I understand the analogy of telling your kids they are evil children will have its effects on your family friends and neighbors is lost on you and without and relevance in your mind.


    The Bible documented that Jesus was killed and by who, It is not a crime to document history, it is a crime to kill others based on a a fact 2000 years ago.
    I was taught the same thing, I never had any problem, I have known 100s of fathers so far during my life and not one of them mention Jews in a bad way whatsoever, so I do not know what you are talking about.
    Jesus was killed by Rome, nothing happened in Judea without the permission of Rome, all offices were held by those who followed Rome and were appointed with their approval.
    This above statement is the same as saying the Jews were killed by Nazis nothing happens in Germany without their permission, all offices were held by those who followed Nazis and were appointed with their approval..



    Jews were murdered by Nazis and the German people among others with the help of Christian Europe.
    Christian Europe was involved in the Holocaust, that is proved by the fact had Occupied Christian Europe in refused to acquiesce to do the Nazis bidding.

    Nazis committed the Holocaust and just as the Jews were helpless in stopping the Nazis, so was the Christians..
    The Sunnis in Syria are being killed in the hundreds of thousands and the whole world is watching helplessly, they were being rounded up and mass murdered in the first 2 years of the Syrian revolution, until someone gave them weapons to defend themselves..




    Christian
    Europe, as well as Christian USA, did nothing from 1933 onwards to stop what they saw happening in Germany.
    You wish to deny the murder and killings of Jews from 1096 onward and guess what who was the ultimate authority over
    those people until the Reformation so do not come and tell me rubbish.

    Rubish is when you say the Christians are responsible for the Holocaust, go play that tune in Israel not on this forum, you Jews want to play the only victims of the world war three, even when 50 million people died other than Jews, you are not the only victims, the Christians paid with 40 million victims which is almost 7 times that of the Jews



    Yes, they are part and parcel of the Holocaust whether you admit it or not, the causality of anti-Semitism is a direct result of the Church’s teachings and that is undeniable.
    It is not how you see it, stop playing the victim of a 2000 years old story that says Jesus was killed by the Jews, what should the Bible have said?..Jesus was killed by the native Indians??...It is the truth that has to be documented...

    If Christians of Germany had refused to carry out the Nazi plans, there would have been NO HOLOCAUST.
    Yes the Holocaust would have happened without a doubt, and the Romans would have definitely killed Jesus had the Jews refused to kill him.

    Do Jew haters read the Bible? Some do and think themselves righteous, do you think all Jew haters are red necks lol man the US was never controlled by rednecks it was always controlled by White Anglo Saxon Protestants and during the 1930s the White House had the opportunity to many things to help the situation but they did nothing in fact they assisted the Nazis by denying the Jews help, the same can be seen by the actions of Great Britain.
    Playing the victim again as if anyone could have done anything, 30 million Christians died in the war also but I know you do not care, but the only option to save the Jews was to succeed in invading Germany and kill Hitler and his men, you think that was an easy decision and task to make. And how come no one do anything to save the millions of Sunnis being killed by Assad, there is not a hair of difference between the two, and all I see and hear from you saying is: "let them kill each other till the last man"....no sympathy nothing from you to do, why what make you better than the Sunnis...?
    I don’t need to forgive, forgiveness is more a Christian doctrine, for me and I suspect the Jews then it’s a matter of acknowledging the history and moving on, but always with the clear head that 6,000,000 of their brethren perished while the world sighed and did nothing.
    Again they could do nothing about it unless they invade and succeed in occupying Germany to save the Jews, moreover Jews were not the only people getting killed, whole nations were under attacks, whole nations were too busy and occupied fending off Nazi attacks
    It is true that many millions died fighting the Nazis but none died to defeat them from murdering the Jews.
    Was there a plan to eliminate ethnic groups besides the Jews, the answer is no, again you fail to grasp this.

    They fought against him didn't they?
    If they disagree with the Nazis to a point where they started war against Hitler, therefore this is enough evidence that they against Hitler and what Hitler is doing.
    Are you planning on saving the Sunnis of Syria?..Or you still want to see them perish?



    This is really absurd from you “ insisting that the Jews killed Jesus,(even though it was only meant for documenting and
    history, not for hatred)”
    Kas you are clueless of the Pogroms of the Jews aren’t you? If not there is no excuse for this kind of comment, it’s really….too much.


    People speak facts, I can say if I want to be like you that Jesus was killed by Jews and Romans together, just like when you say the Jews were killed by Hitler and the Christians, so why you insist on being a hypocrite you and that Israeli guy with Alzheimer.
    After reading your posts and the Alzheimer man ones I am starting to think that Hitler was possibly a Jew himself.
    ..
    Be thankful if it was not for Christian nations like France and England and others, the state of Israel would not have existed.



    Last edited by Kasarjian; 04-06-2016 at 09:38 AM.








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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    NSDAP was German party, but other than that it wasn't only Germans who were what we perceive today as Nazi.

    Read History, would you, you'll discover many wonderful thing about Letuvenians, Latvians, Pols, Ukrainians, French, etc ...

    There were so many non-German Christians willing and ego to help kill Jews you will be surprised.
    And millions of other crimes were committed thousand years ago against everyone, every religion, every nation, every minorities.....you are not the only victims from 2000 years ago till present.
    Bottom line you were killed in significant number by Hitler and the Nazis nobody else....
    Moreover if it was not for England and France and other Christian nation there would not be the State of Israel.








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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    We are slaves of our bias.
    As well as ignorance.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    A Catholic Timeline of Events Relating to
    Jews, Anti-Judaism, Antisemitism, and the Holocaust
    From the 3rd Century to the Beginning of the Third Millennium


    Prepared by Jerry Darring

    c. 240 Origen of Alexandria writes that the Jews "have committed the most abominable of crimes" in conspiring against Christ, and for that reason "the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election"
    248 St. Cyprian writes that the Jews have fallen under the heavy wrath of God, because they have departed from the Lord, and have followed idols
    306 The Council of Elvira decrees that Christians and Jews cannot intermarry, have sexual intercourse, or eat together
    325 Conversation and fellowship with Jews is forbidden to the clergy by the Council of Nicaea
    4thcentury Christian emperors of Rome decree that Christians converting to Judaism, and Jews obstructing the conversion of other Jews to Christianity, will incur the death penalty; Jews can not marry Christians, or hold public office, or own slaves
    c. 380 St. Gregory of Nyssa refers to the Jews as "murderers of the Lord, assassins of the prophets, rebels and detesters of God,... companions of the devil, race of vipers, informers, calumniators, darkeners of the mind, pharisaic leaven, Sanhedrin of demons, accursed, detested,... enemies of all that is beautiful"
    c. 380 St. Ambrose calls the synagogue "a place of unbelief, a home of impiety, a refuge of insanity, damned by God Himself"
    388 A mob of Christians, at the instigation of their bishop, looted and burned the synagogue in Callinicum, a town on the Euphrates. The Emperor Theodosius wants those responsible punished and the synagogue rebuilt at the expense of the bishop, but St. Ambrose, the bishop of Milan, pressures him to relent and condone the action
    400 St. Augustine writes: "the Church admits and avows the Jewish people to be cursed, because after killing Christ they continue to till the ground of an earthly circumcision, an earthly Sabbath, an earthly passover, while the hidden strength or virtue of making known Christ, which this tilling contains, is not yielded to the Jews while they continue in impiety and unbelief, for it is revealed in the New Testament. While they will not turn to God, the veil which is on their minds in reading the Old Testament is not taken away... the Jewish people, like Cain, continue tilling the ground, in the carnal observance of the law, which does not yield to them its strength, because they do not perceive in it the grace of Christ"
    c. 400 Calling the synagogue "brothel and theater" and "a cave of pirates and the lair of wild beasts," St. John Chrysostom writes that "the Jews behave no better than hogs and goats in their lewd grossness and the excesses of their gluttony"
    413 A group of monks sweep through Palestine, destroying synagogues and massacring Jews at the Western Wall
    414 St. Cyril of Alexandria expels Jews from his city
    425 Jews are required by law to observe Christian feasts and fasts and to listen to sermons designed to persuade them to convert
    442 The synagogue in Constantinople is turned into a church
    529-553 The Code of the emperor Justinian decrees that in Christian Byzantine society Jews cannot read their sacred books in Hebrew in their synagogues, and the Mishnah and other rabbinic interpretations are banned
    538 The Third Synod of Orléans decrees that Jews cannot show themselves in the streets during Passover Week
    591 Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews are not to be forced into baptism "lest they return to their former superstition and die the worse for having been born again"
    600 Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews should not have excessive freedom, but also "in no way should they suffer a violation of their rights"
    681 The Synod of Toledo orders the burning of the Talmud and other books
    768 Pope Stephen IV decries ownership of hereditary estates by "the Jewish people, ever rebellious against God and derogatory of our rites"
    c. 830 Agobard, Archbishop of Lyons, writes anti-Jewish pamphlets in which he refers to Jews as "sons of darkness"
    c. 937 Pope Leo VII encourages his newly appointed archbishop of Mainz to expel all Jews who refuse to be baptized
    c. 1010-1020 In Rouen, Orléans, Limoges, Mainz, and probably also in Rome, Jews are converted by force, massacred, or expelled
    1050 The Synod of Narbonne decrees that Christians are not permitted to live in Jewish homes
    c. 1070 Pope Alexander II warns the bishops of Spain to prevent violence against the Jews because, unlike the Saracens, they "are prepared to live in servitude"
    1078 The Synod of Gerona decrees that Jews must pay the same taxes as Christians to support the church
    1081 Pope Gregory VII writes to King Alphonso of Spain telling him that if he allows Jews to be lords over Christians, he is oppressing the Church and exalting "the Synagogue of Satan"
    1084 Rüdiger, bishop of Speyer, grants the Jews a charter allowing them to keep Christian servants and serfs, own fields and vineyards, and carry arms
    1096 Massacres of Jews takes place in the First Crusade, destroying entire Jewish communities in Mainz, Speyer, Worms, Cologne and other cities. The Jewish chronicler reports: "The enemies stripped them naked and dragged them off, granting quarter to none, save those few who accepted baptism. The number of the slain was eight hundred in these two days." The chronicler Guibert de Nogent reports that the Rouen Crusaders said: "We desire to go and fight God's enemies in the East; but we have before our eyes certain Jews, a race more inimical to God than any other"
    1182 Jews are expelled from France, all their property is confiscated, and Christians' debts to them are cancelled with the payment of one-fifth of their value to the treasury
    1190 The Third Crusade, led by Richard the Lion-Heart, stirs anti-Jewish fervor and results in the mass suicide of the York Jews in Clifford's Tower on March 16
    1198 Jews are allowed to return to France
    1199 Pope Innocent III decrees that Jews are to be allowed to worship in their synagogues, they are not to be coerced into baptism, and that Jewish cemeteries are not to be mutilated
    1215 The Fourth Lateran Council decrees that Jews are to wear distinctive clothing, and on the three days before Easter they are not to go out in public
    1222 The Council of Oxford prohibits the construction of new synagogues
    1227 The Council of Narbonne orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1230 Jews in France are forbidden to lend money on interest
    1234 The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1235 Thirty-four Jews are burned to death in Fulda on a blood-libel charge
    1246 The Council of Béziers orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1247 Pope Innocent IV defends the Jews: "they are wrongly accused of partaking of the heart of a murdered child at the Passover... Whenever a corpse is found somewhere, it is to the Jews that the murder is wickedly imputed. They are persecuted on the pretext of such fables... they are deprived of trial and of regular judgment; in mockery of all justice, they are stripped of their belongings, starved, imprisoned and tortured"
    1254 The Council of Albi orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1260 The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
    1267 The Synod of Vienna decrees that Christians cannot attend Jewish ceremonies, and Jews cannot dispute with simple Christian people about the Catholic religion
    1267 The Synod of Breslau decrees compulsory ghettos for Jews
    1267 Pope Clement IV instructs the Franciscans and Dominicans to deal with the "new Christians" who had reverted to Judaism
    c. 1270 St. Thomas Aquinas writes that the Jews sin more in their unbelief than do pagans because they have abandoned the way of justice "after knowing it in some way"
    1272 Pope Gregory X defends the Jews: "It happens sometimes that Christians lose their children and that the enemies of the Jews accuse them of having kidnaped and killed these children in order to offer sacrifices with their heart and blood, and it also happens that the parents themselves, or other Christians who are enemies to the Jews, hide the children and attack the Jews, demanding of them, as ransom, a certain sum of money, on the entirely false pretext that these children had been kidnaped and killed by the Jews"
    1275 Jews in England are forbidden to lend money on interest
    1279 The Synod of Ofen decrees that Christians cannot sell or rent real estate to Jews
    1283 Jews in France are forbidden to live in the countryside
    1284 The Council of Nîmes orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1289 The Council of Vienna orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1290 Jews are expelled from England and southern Italy
    1294 Jews in France are restricted to special quarters of the cities
    1294 Jews are expelled from Bern
    1298 The Jews of Röttingen, charged with profaning the Host, are massacred and burned down to the last one
    1320 The "Shepherds' Crusade." A Christian chronicler records: "The shepherds laid siege to all the Jews who had come from all sides to take refuge... the Jews defended themselves heroically... but their resistance served no purpose, for the shepherds slaughtered a great number of the besieged Jews by smoke and by fire... The Jews, realizing that they would not escape alive, preferred to kill themselves... They chose one of their number (and) this man put some five hundred of them to death, with their consent. He then descended from the castle tower with the few Jewish children who still remained alive... They killed him by quartering. They spared the children, whom they made Catholics by baptism"
    1326 The Council of Avignon orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
    1345 King John authorizes his subjects in Liegnitz and Breslau to destroy the Jewish cemeteries in order to use the tombstones to repair the city walls
    1347-1350 During the Black Death, Jews are accused of poisoning wells in order to overthrow Christendom, and many thousands of Jews are killed. Pope Clement VI defends the Jews against these charges
    1350 Jews are expelled from many parts of Germany
    1367 Jews are expelled from Hungary
    1368 The Council of Vabres orders Jews to wear a round patch
    1381 Jews are expelled from Strasbourg
    1394 The expulsion of Jews from France, begun in 1306, is completed with an edict promulgated on the Jewish Day of Atonement
    1420 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
    1421 Jews are expelled from Austria
    1424 Jews are expelled from Fribourg and Zurich
    c. 1425 Pope Martin V denounces anti-Jewish preaching and forbids the forced baptism of Jewish children under the age of twelve
    1426 Jews are expelled from Cologne
    1432 Jews are expelled from Saxony
    1434 The Council of Basel decrees that Jews cannot obtain academic degrees
    1435 King Alfonso orders the Jews of Sicily to attach a round patch to their clothing and over their shops
    1438 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the town councilors
    1439 Jews are expelled from Augsburg
    1453 Jews are expelled from Wurzburg
    1454 Jews are expelled from Breslau
    1456 Pope Callistus III bans all social communication between Christians and Jews
    1462 Jews are expelled from Mainz following a conflict between two candidates for the archepiscopal seat
    1467 Jews are expelled from Tlemcen
    1471 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
    1475 The entire Jewish community in Trent, northern Italy, is put to death on the allegation that it had murdered a boy for religious purposes
    1485 Jews are expelled from Warsaw and Cracow
    1492 After forcing many Jews to be baptized and then referring to them as Marranos (swine), and after an Inquisition in which some 700 Marranos were burnt at the stake for showing signs of "Jewish" taint, Spain expels all Jews from the country
    1497 Jews are expelled from Portugal
    1519 Jews are expelled from Regensburg
    1553 Cardinal Carafa instigates a public burning of copies of the Talmud and other Jewish religious works in a square in Rome
    1555-1559 Pope Paul IV restricts Jews to ghettos and decrees that they are to wear distinctive headgear
    1566-1572 Pope St. Pius V expels Jews from the Papal States, allowing some to remain in Rome's ghettos and in Ancona for commercial reasons
    1592-1605 Pope Clement VIII includes a ban on all Jewish books in the expanded Index of Forbidden Books
    1826 Pope Leo XII decrees that Jews are to be confined to ghettos and their property is to be confiscated
    1858 Edgardo Mortara, 6-year old son of a Jewish family in Bologna, is abducted by the papal police and brought to Rome. He had been secretly baptized five years earlier by a domestic servant who thought he was about to die. The parents try to get the boy back, and there is a universal outcry, but Pope Pius IX rejects all petitions submitted to him
    1904 In an interview with Zionist leader Theodor Hertzl, Pope St. Pius X says: "I know, it is disagreeable to see the Turks in possession of our Holy Places. We simply have to put up with it. But to sanction the Jewish wish to occupy these sites, that we cannot do... The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people... If you go to Palestine and your people settle there, you will find us clergy and churches ready to baptize you all"
    1919 Newly independent Poland passes a law making Sunday a compulsory day of rest in Poland. The law is intended to force Jews to observe the Christian sabbath in addition to their own
    1921 Speaking for Pope Benedict XV, a Vatican spokesman informed representatives of the Zionist Movement htat they did not wish to assist "the Jewish race, which is permeated with a revolutionary and rebellious spirit" to gain control over the Holy Land
    1925 At a conference of Catholic academicians in Innsbruck, Austria, Bishop Sigismund Waitz calls the Jews an "alien people" who had corrupted England, France, Italy, and especially America
    1933 In a series of Advent sermons, Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich defends the Old Testament against Nazi attacks but emphasizes that it is not his intention to defend contemporary Jewry, saying that a distinction has to be drawn between Jews living before and after the crucifixion of Jesus
    1933 In a pastoral letter on January 23, Bishop Johannes Maria Gföllner of Linz, Austria, declares that while the radical anti-Semitism preached by Nazism is completely incompatible with Christianity, it is the right and duty of Christians to fight and break the harmful influences of Jewry in all areas of modern cultural life. The Austrian episcopate condemns the letter in December for causing racial hatred and conflict
    1933-1939 The general consensus among the Catholic papers in Poland is that Jewish influence should be reduced in all areas of life, that the Polish and Jewish communities should be separated as much as possible, and that the most desirable option is mass emigration of the Jews from Poland. St. Maximilian Kolbe is an active promoter of antisemitic literature
    1935-1936 The Polish Catholic Church gives full support to a government policy encouraging Jewish emigration from Poland
    1936 Cardinal August Hlond, the primate of Poland, issues a pastoral letter, stating: "I warn you against that ethical attitude that is fundamentally and uncompromisingly anti-Jewish. It is contradictory to Catholic ethics. It is permissible to love your nation more than others, but it is not permissible to hate anyone. Not even the Jews... You should close yourselves to the harmful influence of Jewry... But you may not attack Jews, beat them, hurt them, slander them. In a Jew you should also respect and love a human being and your neighbor"
    1937 Austrian bishop Alois Hudal publishes a book defending Nazi racial ideology, supporting laws preventing a flood of Jewish immigrants, and criticizing the "Jewish" press for playing off Austrians against Germans. His book receives the support of Archbishop (later Cardinal) Theodor Innitzer of Vienna
    1938 In a speech before Belgian pilgrims, Pope Pius XI denounces antisemitism and says: "Spiritually we are all Semites." His comments are reported in various newspapers but not in the Vatican's L'Osservatore Romano
    1939 Josef Tiso, a Catholic priest with a doctorate in theology, became president of independent Slovakia. An extremist hater of Jews, he allied Slovakia with Nazi Germany and, with strong objections from the Vatican, deported most Slovakian Jews to their deaths in the camps. He declared: "It is a Christian action to expel the Jews, because it is for the good of the people, which is thus getting rid of its pests." Monsignor Tiso was executed after the war as a war criminal
    1941-1945 The "Final Solution" takes place in Nazi-occupied Europe. This Holocaust, the killing of some six million Jews, "happened in the 'heartland' of Western Christian Europe... It happened with the passive acquiescence or active collaboration of most European Christians, and no decisive protest from church leadership, Catholic or protestant" (Rosemary Radford Ruether)
    1941 In Croatia, Bishop Ivan Saric of Sarajevo appropriates Jewish property for his own use. His diocesan newspaper declares that "Jewish greed increases. The Jews have led Europe and the world towards disaster, moral and economic disaster. Their appetite grows till only domination of the whole world will satisfy it." Bishop Aksamovic of Djakovic teaches that "today it is the sacred duty of every citizen to prove his Aryan origins." Meanwhile, Archbishop Aloys Stepinac of Zagreb preaches in a sermon that "it is forbidden to exterminate Gypsies and Jews because they are said to belong to an inferior race"
    1941 Provost Bernard Lichtenberg of Berlin's St. Hedwig Cathedral publicly declares that he will include Jews in his daily prayers. On October 23 he is arrested and sent to Dauchau, but dies on the way
    1941 The German Bishops' Conference issues a pastoral letter secretly distributed and read from all pulpits. It outlines in detail the Nazi assault on the Catholic Church, but makes no mention of the Jews
    1941 In Operational Situation Report USSR No. 54, the German Einsatzgruppen A reports from Kaunas, Lithuania: "The attitude of the Church regarding the Jewish question is, in general, clear. In addition, Bishop Brisgys has forbidden all clergymen to help Jews in any form whatsoever. He rejected several Jewish delegations who approached him personally and asked for his intervention with the German authorities. In the future he will not meet with any Jews at all"
    1942 The French Assembly of Cardinals and Archbishops sends a letter to Marshal Pétain, head of the Vichy government, protesting against the mass arrests and cruel treatment of the French Jews
    1942 Protest against the persecution of Dutch Jews is read from the pulpit of all churches in Holland
    1942 In August and September, messages to be read out in their churches protesting the deportation of Jews from France are written by Archbishop Saliège of Toulouse, Bishop Théas of Montauban, Bishop Delay of Marseilles, Cardinal Gerlier of Lyon, Bishop Vanstenbergher of Bayonne, and Archbishop Moussaron of Albi
    1942 Great Britain, the Polish Government-in-exile, Brazil, the United States, and Uruguay press Pope Pius XII to condemn the Nazi treatment of Jews. The Pope responds to this international appeal with his Christmas radio address, but does not specifically mention the Jews
    1942-1945 Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau and head of the German Bishops' Conference, opposes all public protest against the deportation and massacre of the Jews. He maintains a cordial relationship with Hitler, and in May 1945 he orders requiem masses for Hitler be offered in all his parishes
    1943 At their annual meeting in Fulda, the German Catholic bishops debate whether to speak out about the Holocaust and confront Hitler with a direct accusation. They decide not to do so
    1943 Slovakia's Catholic Bishops protest the deportation of Jews in a pastoral letter read in Latin from the pulpits. Many priests refuse to read it or insert their own negative comments
    1945 Addressing the College of Cardinals after the end of the European war, Pope Pius XII speaks of the hundreds of priests and religious who died in Nazi concentration camps, but makes no mention of the Jews
    1965 The Second Vatican Council issues its Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions: "True, authorities of the Jews and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today... The Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God... The Church decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone"
    1967 The Catholic bishops in the United States establish an Office on Catholic-Jewish Relations, and promptly issues Guidelines for Catholic-Jewish Relations
    1967 In an interview with a Los Angeles rabbi, Cardinal Frings of Cologne, Germany, states that the Jews had been economically too powerful in the 1920s, and he doubts if six million Jews had actually been killed under Hitler
    1974 The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues its Guidelines for Catholic-Jewish Relations: "The spiritual ties and historical relations between the Church and Judaism are enough to condemn, as contrary to the spirit of Christianity, all forms of anti-Semitism and discrimination"
    1979 Pope John Paul II visits Auschwitz and refers to the Holocaust as "the Golgotha of our century"
    1980 The German Bishops Conference declares: "A serious dialogue of reciprocal love and understanding must replace the 'anti-Semitism' which, to some extent, still lives on in Christians. The spiritual bonds and historical statements that bind the Church and Judaism condemn any form of anti-Semitism as contradictory to the spirit of Christianity"
    1984 The National Conference of Brazilian Bishops declares: "All forms of anti-Semitism must be condemned. Every unfavorable word and expression must be erased from Christian speech. All campaigns of physical or moral violence must cease. The Jew must not be considered a deicide people"
    1985 The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues the document Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church: "Our two traditions are so related that they cannot ignore each other. Mutual knowledge must be encouraged at every level. There is evident in particular a painful ignorance of the history and traditions of Judaism, of which only negative aspects and often caricature seem to form part of the stock ideas of many Christians"
    1987 Pope John Paul II holds a controversial Vatican meeting with Kurt Waldheim, President of Austria. The meeting causes an international uproar because of Waldheim's reputation as a willing bureaucratic accomplice under the Nazis
    1988 The Pontifical Commission "Justice and Peace" issues a document on racism: "Amongst the manifestations of systematic racial distrust, specific mention must once again be made of anti-Semitism. If anti-Semitism has been the most tragic form that racist ideology has assumed in our century, with the horrors of the Jewish 'Holocaust,' it has unfortunately not yet entirely disappeared"
    1989 Reacting to Jewish efforts to remove a Carmelite convent established at Auschwitz, Cardinal Glemp, the Primate of Poland, says in an August homily: "Dear Jews, do not talk with us from the position of a nation raised beyond all others and do not dictate terms that are impossible to fulfill. Don't you see, esteemed Jews, that openly opposing the Carmelite nuns hurts the feelings of all Poles and violates our hard-won sovereignty. Your power is in the mass media, at your immediate disposal in many countries. Do not use it to spread anti-Polonism." The convent was eventually removed.
    1993 The Holy See establishes diplomatic relations with the State of Israel
    1994 Pope John Paul II hosts a concert at the Vatican to commemorate the Holocaust. It is the first time that the Chief Rabbi of Rome is invited to co-officiate at a public function in the Vatican; the first time a Jewish cantor sings at the Vatican; the first time the Vatican choir sings a Hebrew text in performance
    1994-1995 Bishops in Hungary, Germany, Poland, Netherlands, and the United States issue documents condemning antisemitism on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Holocaust
    1997 The French Catholic Bishops issue a Declaration of Repentance: "The end result is that the attempt to exterminate the Jewish people, instead of being perceived as a central question in human and spiritual terms, remained a secondary consideration. In the face of so great and utter a tragedy, too many of the Church's pastors committed an offense, by their silence, against the Church itself and its mission. Today we confess that such a silence was a sin. In so doing, we recognize that the Church of France failed in her mission as teacher of consciences"
    1997 The Swiss Catholic Bishops' Conference issue a document on the role of Switzerland during the Second World War: "For centuries, Christians and ecclesiastical teachings were guilty of persecuting and marginalizing Jews, thus giving rise to antisemitic sentiments... It is in reference to these past acts of churches for which we proclaim ourselves culpable and ask pardon of the descendants of the victims"
    1998 The Vatican Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews issues the document We Remember: A Reflection on the 'Shoah': "We wish to turn awareness of past sins into a firm resolve to build a new future in which there will be no more anti-Judaism among Christians or anti-Christian sentiment among Jews, but rather a shared mutual respect as befits those who adore the one Creator and Lord and have a common father in faith, Abraham"
    1998 The Italian Bishops address a letter to the Jewish community of Italy, expressing the "hope that the maleficent plant of antisemitism will be extinguished forever from history, beginning with our cultural and linguistic habits"
    2000 Pope John Paul II visits Israel. He pays tribute to the victims of the Holocaust at Yad Vashem (the Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority), and he leaves the following prayer between the ancient stones of the Western Wall in Jerusalem:
    God of our fathers,
    you chose Abraham and his descendants
    to bring your Name to the Nations:
    we are deeply saddened
    by the behavior of those
    who in the course of history
    have caused these children of yours to suffer,
    and asking your forgiveness
    we wish to commit ourselves
    to genuine brotherhood
    with the people of the Covenant
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    And millions of other crimes were committed thousand years ago against everyone, every religion, every nation, every minorities.....you are not the only victims from 2000 years ago till present.
    Do not try to deflect - subject is Christians having committed more murders than Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    Bottom line you were killed in significant number by Hitler and the Nazis nobody else...
    No argument here, but you still are denying that Nazis were Christians. You need to wise up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    Moreover if it was not for England and France and other Christian nation there would not be the State of Israel.
    Actually England and France got their asses handed to them in the Middle East and North Africa and this is how Israel came to be among many others.

    Brits came running to UN, begging to take Palestinian Mandate away from them.

    UN had no choice but to vote for partition, which Jews accepted and declared and built The State of Israel.

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    INTRODUCTION TO GERALD S. SLOYAN’S ARTICLE ON CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION OF JEWS OVER THE CENTURIES
    By Rev. John T. Pawlikowski, OSM, PhD
    Professor of Social Ethics, Catholic Theological Union, Chicago
    Member and Former Chair, Committee on Church Relations and the Holocaust, United States Holocaust Memorial Council
    Antisemitism has many parents. Scholars of ancient civilizations have revealed the presence of a cultural antipathy towards Jews and their religion in Greco-Roman society. There is little question that some of the early Gentile converts to Christianity shared in this cultural bias. As Gentiles they also were not well acquainted with the internal life of the Jewish community at the time of Jesus. Hence they read many of the New Testament texts as condemnations of Judaism as such rather than internal quarrels which were commonplace within the Jewish community of the period.




    Competition for converts and other factors led to an intensification of Jewish-Christian conflict towards the end of the first century even though there is evidence of continued Jewish-Christian interaction, including Christian participation in Sabbath worship, in some areas well beyond that. These conflicts had a negative impact on the writers of certain parts of the New Testament especially the author of the gospel of John which was compiled about this time. In several places John’s gospel associates “the Jews” with darkness and with the devil. This laid the groundwork for centuries of Christian characterization of Jews as agents of the devil, a characterization which found its way into medieval popular religion and eventually into passion plays.


    In the second century and beyond, many of the principal Fathers of the Church began to write of Jews as a “rejected people” who were doomed to a life of marginality and misery. Jews were to wander the world as a “despised people.” This image persisted in Christian preaching, art and popular teaching for centuries to come. In certain countries it often led to civil and political discrimination against Jews and in some instances to physical attacks on Jews which resulted in death. While some Popes, bishops and Christian princes stepped up to protect Jews, they were clearly a minority. It was only in the mid-twentieth century that the Catholic Church and many Protestant denominations issued major statements repudiating this anti-Judaic theology and began a process of constructive Christian-Jewish interaction.


    When the Nazis came on the scene in Germany they were able to draw upon the legacy of Christian anti-Judaism even though biologically-based antisemitism went well beyond classical Christian anti-Judaism by arguing for the annihilation of the Jews rather than only for their misery and marginality. Christian antisemitism provided an indispensable seedbed for the success of Nazism on the popular level. It led some Christians to embrace the Nazi ideology and many others to stand on the sidelines as masses of Jews were exterminated.
    In the following pages noted Scripture scholar and theologian Gerard Sloyan has detailed in chronological fashion the “shadow”
    on the cross of Christianity. It does not make for pleasant reading. But it is a legacy that must be confronted with honesty and remorse. Knowledge of this history of antisemitism within the Christian churches is indispensable for any full understanding of the Holocaust.

    MY POINT KAS FROM THE BEGINNING.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Kasarjian,

    Read Sam's post and try to understand how wrong you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    Do not try to deflect - subject is Christians having committed more murders than Muslims.
    and again you need comprehension intervention to help u out in the future.....this was never my subject, my subject was you cannot hold the Christians responsible for the holocaust unless you are stupid.

    No argument here, but you still are denying that Nazis were Christians. You need to wise up.
    No Nazi was a Christian...try harder...



    Actually England and France got their asses handed to them in the Middle East and North Africa and this is how Israel came to be among many others.

    Brits came running to UN, begging to take Palestinian Mandate away from them.

    UN had no choice but to vote for partition, which Jews accepted and declared and built The State of Israel.

    You can deny it all u want, but It will forever be a fact that without France and England Israel would have never existed...








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    @Samaritan Are you seriously trying hard enough, you are bringing history of abuse from 1200 years ago when the whole world was still like stone age, as if others did not suffer as bad as the Jews, every minority suffered, the Armenians genocide by the Turks, the Kurdish people were steadily murdered and stepped on by the Turks and even until the 20th century they were still killed with mustard gas and other chemical weapons by Saddam, the Assyrians were swept completely from the Levant by the Arabs, the Arabs and the Jews were killed by the Crusaders, you can go on for a thousand years, and the fact will still be that: you cannot hold the Christians responsible for the Holocaust....
    The fact that when a group of people want to massacre another group, or when a group want tp murder and rob a famil and steal their wealth, they will use religion as an excuse when in fact their motive would be stealing or any other interest, they will use religion as an excuse for anything, the Nazis were never real Christians starting way before they started to murder Jews and not from the second they started their murder spree, no my friend they were never real Christians ever.....the fact is that Christian religion never told them to kill Jews, they had their own reason which the Christians are not responsible for, as a matter of fact most people in Europe were Christians who were probably believers in the Bible or non believers, if you really believe in the Bible you will not be going to kill innocent people, and 80 percent of Europe were against Hitler...I do not care about isolated incident, I do not care about what you say happened 2000 years ago which happened to all minorities and not only Jews, so stop playing like the Jews were the only victim in the last two thousands years, and simply stop playing that the the Jews were murdered by Hitler because of the Bible it is not going to work.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    and again you need comprehension intervention to help u out in the future.....this was never my subject, my subject was you cannot hold the Christians responsible for the holocaust unless you are stupid.



    No Nazi was a Christian...try harder...






    You can deny it all u want, but It will forever be a fact that without France and England Israel would have never existed...


    " You can deny it all u want, but It will forever be a fact that without France and England Israel would have never existed..."
    Israel existed for a thousand years before there was ever a France or England.
    What is true is that Lebanon that never existed as a sovereign country called Lebanon in history would never have existed without France and England!!!
    Last edited by Samaritan; 06-06-2016 at 03:05 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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