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Thread: How to create a terrorist?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    Here is one of the most famous examples: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27373131
    I do not want to get into this new argument cause I have no time to verify whether it is credible or not....I am sure you are exaggerating it, and you have to know that not only the Jews suffer in WW2, evryone, and the Christians paid a lot more than the Jews with causalities.


    You are digressing, we already established that not all Christians were Nazis, no need to revisit it again.
    Christians and Nazis is not compatible, you are either or......wake up...people who claim both are worse than the ISIS...



    Not only can, but should - practically every Nazi was before and even during committing the crime good kirche going bundeslander.

    None of them that I know of ever refused to celebrate Christmas (for example), not even Hitler. Etc ...
    In Europe and the USA non Christians celebrate Christmas, 50 % of people who celebrate Christmas in the USA never read the Bible....does it mean they are Christians...
    Hitler is an atheist and had no religion everyone knows that, whether he celebrates Christmas or not it does not mean he is a Christians, you are only a Christian if you follow and abide by the 10 amendments, Hitler does not follow any of them..


    First, not only Christians, but also Jews and many others.
    No neither nor, Harry made the decision...
    Second, it was act of defensive war and in my book it is perfectly condoned because of that.
    One sided nuclear attack is never defensive....the USA wanted to spare the economy and save the cost of the war....a fool thinks it was a defensive move, you can lie all you want, but I only speak the truth..

    Third and the most important - when you will be able to prove to me that atomic bomb was used as part of planned extermination of Japanese people, then you will get right to use it as and example in the scope of our discussion.
    Until then I will see it no more than just a chip shot taken by desperate man.
    You make rules where it suites you, so who said that you can only give examples about someone who intended to exterminate others?....the argument you started was about saying that the Christians killed more people than any other religion including Muslim, go back to your first post, so therefore you can add to the number of people killed by Christians, to that number of people killed by Hitler, and to the number of people killed by Truman, that is according to your twisted logic...
    No one is as desperate and prejudice as you are...
    Last edited by Kasarjian; 15-05-2016 at 08:59 AM.








  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post

    However, depending on the Pope the Church’s relation with the Jews was mostly adversarial.
    Was Pope Pius XII Hitlers Pope I don’t believe that nor do I think he was an angel as has been alleged.
    It is a conundrum that Christian clergy both Priests and Pastors as well as the parishioners were murdered alongside the Jews.
    You are touching on an issue close to my heart. It is a utter distortion of History to say, like all the anti-catholics out there, specifically our lost and seperated Protestant brethren, that Pope Pius and the Catholic Church per se supported the Nazi regime and ergo the Holocaust.
    I suggest you read about Cardinal Clemens August Graf Von Galen, the Cardinal of the Catholic Church in Germany. He was damning of the Nazi Regime and protested against specifically Nazi euthanasia , Gestapo and general Nazi Lawlessness. The only reason historians say he was not marched to the death camps himself was that he was of aristocratic stock and his family had influence in Germany. His condemnation also started as early as 1934.
    I also suggest you read " Mit brennender Sorge" (With Burning Concern), an encyclical in 1937 by Cardinal Pacelli (who would be elected Pope Pius XII) condemning the Nazi Regime as well as Nazi flagrant breaches of the Reichskonkordat. It was smuggled into Germany and over 300,000 of it distributed to Catholics, largely by Cardinal Galen.
    Something of note, the above was the first major denunciation of Nazi Germany by a Major organisation.
    Also, Pope Pius XII was decorated and awarded by Jews and Jewish organisations around the world post WWII for his help and Golda Meir praised him specifically in a UN address in the 1950s.

    found it here is what was said:
    In 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII, Golda Meir, then Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, delivered a eulogy on behalf of the nation of Israel to the United Nations, stating: “We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. During a generation of wars and dissensions, he affirmed the high ideals of peace and compassion. During the 10 years of Nazi terror, when our people went through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims. The life of our time has been enriched by a voice which expressed the great moral truths above the tumults of daily conflicts. We grieve over the loss of a great defender of peace.”
    Last edited by shreek; 15-05-2016 at 09:46 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    I do not want to get into this new argument cause I have no time to verify whether it is credible or not...
    Too late, you already gotten into this argument few posts ago when you decided to claim that Christians (who are not Nazis) went into war with Nazis (who are Christians) to save Jews.
    So, either find time to disprove my example or accept BBC as trustworthy source and agree with my claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    I am sure you are exaggerating it, and you have to know that not only the Jews suffer in WW2, evryone, and the Christians paid a lot more than the Jews with causalities.
    Again, the same value example as with your example of nuking of Hiroshima - when you will prove that Hitler was killing Christians for being Christians, then you will get the right to compare it with extermination of Jews.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    In Europe and the USA non Christians celebrate Christmas, 50 % of people who celebrate Christmas in the USA never read the Bible....does it mean they are Christians...
    Does not work like that - when Christian "un-becomes" (as you claim) Christian and converts to being Nazi everything else that was dear becomes hated.
    And it is true for each and every conversion, not only for conversion from Christian to Nazi.
    So, first thing should've been gone is the most important of all Christian holidays - Christmas and yet it did not. What gives?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    You make rules where it suites you
    Wrong, the rule in question is universally accepted international rule that is older than World itself - "one does not attempt to compare apples and oranges hoping to create legitimate argument".

    Again, when you will prove that America bombed Hiroshima (and the rest of Japan) for the purpose of extermination of Japanese people, then I will accept your argument.

    Also, when you will prove that Hitler and Nazis were actively seeking Christians to exterminate them for being Christians, then I will accept this comparison to extermination of Jews.


    P.S. Your entire post looks like one big avoidance speech - hard to argue against facts, isn't it.
    Last edited by proisrael-nonisraeli; 16-05-2016 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shreek View Post
    You are touching on an issue close to my heart. It is a utter distortion of History to say, like all the anti-catholics out there, specifically our lost and seperated Protestant brethren, that Pope Pius and the Catholic Church per se supported the Nazi regime and ergo the Holocaust.
    I suggest you read about Cardinal Clemens August Graf Von Galen, the Cardinal of the Catholic Church in Germany. He was damning of the Nazi Regime and protested against specifically Nazi euthanasia , Gestapo and general Nazi Lawlessness. The only reason historians say he was not marched to the death camps himself was that he was of aristocratic stock and his family had influence in Germany. His condemnation also started as early as 1934.
    I also suggest you read " Mit brennender Sorge" (With Burning Concern), an encyclical in 1937 by Cardinal Pacelli (who would be elected Pope Pius XII) condemning the Nazi Regime as well as Nazi flagrant breaches of the Reichskonkordat. It was smuggled into Germany and over 300,000 of it distributed to Catholics, largely by Cardinal Galen.
    Something of note, the above was the first major denunciation of Nazi Germany by a Major organisation.
    Also, Pope Pius XII was decorated and awarded by Jews and Jewish organisations around the world post WWII for his help and Golda Meir praised him specifically in a UN address in the 1950s.

    found it here is what was said:
    In 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII, Golda Meir, then Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, delivered a eulogy on behalf of the nation of Israel to the United Nations, stating: “We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. During a generation of wars and dissensions, he affirmed the high ideals of peace and compassion. During the 10 years of Nazi terror, when our people went through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims. The life of our time has been enriched by a voice which expressed the great moral truths above the tumults of daily conflicts. We grieve over the loss of a great defender of peace.”




    My interest in Popes is confined to the 11th century to the 13th, however, years ago I had an interest in the man called Hitlers Pope, Pius XII.The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany by Rabbi David G. Dalin wrote an excellent book as a defense for the Pope. I followed his argument at the time. my opinion is neither saint or sinner.

    Pope John XXIII was the Pope of my youth and he could do no wrong and should have been the model for all Popes throughout the Catholic Church, to me he is the gold standard for those that follow and those that came before.
    I like some of the Medieval Popes I think they had great character and of course great power which magnifies the greatness and faults.
    There were evil popes Pope Urban II is said to be an evil man I see him as a great man but I'm prejudiced he's a relation. Pius iX was an evil man, he kidnapped a Jewish child and kept him away from his parents I am sure he is paying for his crime as I write this now.
    In the end, the Church had some great men, some average and a few evil.




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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    Too late, you already gotten into this argument few posts ago when you decided to claim that Christians (who are not Nazis) went into war with Nazis (who are Christians) to save Jews.
    So, either find time to disprove my example or accept BBC as trustworthy source and agree with my claim.




    Again, the same value example as with your example of nuking of Hiroshima - when you will prove that Hitler was killing Christians for being Christians, then you will get the right to compare it with extermination of Jews.




    Does not work like that - when Christian "un-becomes" (as you claim) Christian and converts to being Nazi everything else that was dear becomes hated.
    And it is true for each and every conversion, not only to conversion from Christian to Nazi.
    So, first thing should've been gone is the most important of all Christian holidays - Christmas and yet it did not. What gives?




    Wrong, the rule in question is universally accepted international rule that is older than World itself - "one does not attempt to compare apples and oranges hoping to create legitimate argument".

    Again, when you will prove that America bombed Hiroshima (and the rest of Japan) for the purpose of extermination of Japanese people, then I will accept your argument.

    Also, when you will prove that Hitler and Nazis were actively seeking Christians to exterminate them for being Christians, then I will accept this comparison to extermination of Jews.


    P.S. Your entire post looks like one big avoidance speech. Hard to argue against facts, isn't it.

    I am stressing on your first post IDIOT, so I am counting people killed by Christians and I am adding them up regardless if the intent was to exterminate or not, I am adding them up as a total figure...cause your first post of this thread stated that the Christians killed more people than anyone, it does not state nor specify the intent to exterminate or not....OK IDIOT?

    But I am going to go with you on this cause according to you only Jews can be counted as a casualty by Hitler and i am not allowed to count all the others because Hitler was not actively seeking to exterminate all of the Christians and others, and the same goes to the Hiroshima attack because Truman was not actively seeking to exterminate all Japanese....& I guess according to your logic we are not allowed to count people killed by the crusaders also cause they were not actively seeking to exterminate others....
    So if i agree with you on that, therefore your following first post of this thread which was my main argument :
    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    [@bold:] Where did you get this nonsense. Throughout History there were no greater murderers than Christians .
    is a lie, or at least a contradiction, because if you are going to only count the Jews murdered by Christians, therefore the Christians killed only six million Jews according to u, so therefore there exist a greater murderer than Christians through out History......so the Christians did not kill more people than others...that is according to u.

    So the conclusion is: The Christians did not kill more people than anybody else if you do not want to count the ones that were not sought for extermination ....or should i say they did killed more people than anyone else if you are counting the ones sought for extermination, can you make up your mind..
    OR
    Should I say the conclusion is: You are an idiot beyond help...

    i think it is the latest and i think stupid Hitler's first experience with a Jew, was with some idiot your style..








  6. #36
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    Its just victmization speech of proisraeli-nonisraeli! Every group throug history commited murders! Including jews in the days of Moses and Solomom! Speaking of holocaust, theres a famous group of rich jews from hungary or some coutry around that gave a list of thousands of jews to the nazis so a few hundred rich could escape! So, its more a question of who have the power and not a particular group!
    Constructio Cognitio Omnia Vincit

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutoazeredo View Post
    Its just victmization speech of proisraeli-nonisraeli! Every group throug history commited murders! Including jews in the days of Moses and Solomom! Speaking of holocaust, theres a famous group of rich jews from hungary or some coutry around that gave a list of thousands of jews to the nazis so a few hundred rich could escape! So, its more a question of who have the power and not a particular group!
    Instead of making accusations why not make an argument or aren't you capable of more.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    Instead of making accusations why not make an argument or aren't you capable of more.
    If you didnt noticed my argument was that every group with power in history commited mass murder against somebody for political or religious reasons! I clearly said that everybody did it!
    Constructio Cognitio Omnia Vincit

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    I am stressing on your first post IDIOT, so I am counting people killed by Christians and I am adding them up regardless if the intent was to exterminate or not, I am adding them up as a total figure...cause your first post of this thread stated that the Christians killed more people than anyone, it does not state nor specify the intent to exterminate or not....OK IDIOT?

    But I am going to go with you on this cause according to you only Jews can be counted as a casualty by Hitler and i am not allowed to count all the others because Hitler was not actively seeking to exterminate all of the Christians and others, and the same goes to the Hiroshima attack because Truman was not actively seeking to exterminate all Japanese....& I guess according to your logic we are not allowed to count people killed by the crusaders also cause they were not actively seeking to exterminate others....
    So if i agree with you on that, therefore your following first post of this thread which was my main argument : is a lie, or at least a contradiction, because if you are going to only count the Jews murdered by Christians, therefore the Christians killed only six million Jews according to u, so therefore there exist a greater murderer than Christians through out History......so the Christians did not kill more people than others...that is according to u.

    So the conclusion is: The Christians did not kill more people than anybody else if you do not want to count the ones that were not sought for extermination ....or should i say they did killed more people than anyone else if you are counting the ones sought for extermination, can you make up your mind..
    OR
    Should I say the conclusion is: You are an idiot beyond help...

    i think it is the latest and i think stupid Hitler's first experience with a Jew, was with some idiot your style..
    "according to you only Jews can be counted as a casualty by Hitler and i am not allowed to count all the others because Hitler was not actively seeking to exterminate all of the Christians and others"

    No, it is not what I said.

    I never claimed you should not count anyone else, but Jews.

    You tried to present US use of nuclear bomb as designed to exterminate the Japanese and
    then you decided to use it as moral equivalent to Nazi extermination of Jews and
    later on you created similar lie using Christians as an example.

    I pointed the difference to you several time already and yet you keep ignoring it because it does not fit your narrative.

    It is hard to argue against facts, isn't it.

    Just because Christians were fighting Hitler does not mean that it wasn't Christians who tried to exterminate the Jews.

    It also does not mean that Christians were fighting Hitler to save Jews.


    Accept these facts and truth will set you free.
    Last edited by proisrael-nonisraeli; 18-05-2016 at 06:47 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutoazeredo View Post
    If you didnt noticed my argument was that every group with power in history commited mass murder against somebody for political or religious reasons! I clearly said that everybody did it!
    That's funny I didn't see an argument I saw you make assertions or accusations with no facts or story behind it so unless you have something else to offer as an argument, facts and story I'll write it off as a bunch of hot air masquerading as Moral relativism which is cut rate excuse for moral crimes committed in history by those who wish to remain blameless. Again, need I remind you of your own personal ancestral history.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 18-05-2016 at 06:38 AM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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