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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    @Samaritan Are you seriously trying hard enough, you are bringing history of abuse from 1200 years ago when the whole world was still like stone age, as if others did not suffer as bad as the Jews, every minority suffered, the Armenians genocide by the Turks, the Kurdish people were steadily murdered and stepped on by the Turks and even until the 20th century they were still killed with mustard gas and other chemical weapons by Saddam, the Assyrians were swept completely from the Levant by the Arabs, the Arabs and the Jews were killed by the Crusaders, you can go on for a thousand years, and the fact will still be that: you cannot hold the Christians responsible for the Holocaust....
    The fact that when a group of people want to massacre another group, or when a group want tp murder and rob a famil and steal their wealth, they will use religion as an excuse when in fact their motive would be stealing or any other interest, they will use religion as an excuse for anything, the Nazis were never real Christians starting way before they started to murder Jews and not from the second they started their murder spree, no my friend they were never real Christians ever.....the fact is that Christian religion never told them to kill Jews, they had their own reason which the Christians are not responsible for, as a matter of fact most people in Europe were Christians who were probably believers in the Bible or non believers, if you really believe in the Bible you will not be going to kill innocent people, and 80 percent of Europe were against Hitler...I do not care about isolated incident, I do not care about what you say happened 2000 years ago which happened to all minorities and not only Jews, so stop playing like the Jews were the only victim in the last two thousands years, and simply stop playing that the the Jews were murdered by Hitler because of the Bible it is not going to work.

    Actually I am giving you the history of the abuse that the Church did to the Jews since it’s inception and that was done to them through the Church and the Popes with few exceptions is evil.I find it astounding that when presented with the facts and with the explanation by Rev. John T. Pawlikowski that this evil was the seed bed for the Nazis to do the Holocaust upon the Jews and he indeed says what I have told you from the beginning “ Christian antisemitism provided an indispensable seedbed for the success of Nazism on the popular level. It led some Christians to embrace the Nazi ideology and many others to stand on the sidelines as masses of Jews were exterminated.” Rev. John T. Pawlikowski.


    I cannot understand how and why you don’t accept this and it’s bewildering that after being presented with the evidence that you cannot move off your false myth.
    We are speaking only of the Church and the Jews do not bring in any other peoples you have enough going on to think about fewer Turks, Syrians or others into this argument.
    The Church is indeed responsible for laying the groundwork for the Holocaust, do you think all these evil deeds of theirs went unnoticed by the people.
    I don’t know the figure who were for or against Hitler I do know the 80% as you say, did nothing or very little to stop him in regards to the treatment of the Jews so please don’t tell me again they saved the Jews or created Israel for that is rubbish.
    Nowhere else, was there ever a plan to eliminate an entire race of people Kas and if you are ignorant of that then no one, not even the Church’s history will ever convince you and you’ll stay where you are intellectually.

    Last edited by Samaritan; 06-06-2016 at 04:47 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

  2. #92
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    The Holy See and the Jews
    (from the Special Number - 1939. of the International Review of Secret Societies. Paris, France)
    FOREWORD
    The "Revue International des Societes," which first published this article on "The Holy See and the Jews," is published by the "Ligue Franc-Catholique" (the League of the French Catholic) at 11 bis, rue Portalis, Paris, France. The League is a lay group of Catholics for patriotic and social defense, founded by Monseigneur Jouin, Apostolic Prothonotary, Cure of St. Augustine parish, Paris in 1913. The magazine was founded March 23, 1918, with the approval of the Holy See.
    Monseigneur Jouin was a recognized authority on Jewish history and objectives and the necessity for exposing the facts in defense of Christianity. The Vatican formally praised him for this work of enlightenment as far back as June 20, 1919, in a letter signed by Cardinal Gasparri, Papal Secretary of State.
    Monseigneur Jouin died in 1932. The work has continued and current problems have been analyzed and exposed in relation to the truth, guided by the spirit and writings of the noble founder of the League.

    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/judaism/holysee.htm

    "There is no doubt that all these measures, even those concerning the race and commerce, were aimed to protect the Christian faith from the destructive Jewish influence. But the popes well understood that it is impossible to dissociate the Faith
    form the entire social life and it was for this reason that they entered into such detail, legislating not only in religious matters, but in all that touched the life of the family, the professions and civic life. They also acted in Rome as temporal sovereigns, concerned to protect their people from the clever enterprise of those whom they constantly spoke of under the name of "perfidious Jews" -- hence these severe limitations of their economic and financial power.


    It is impressive that the magistery of the Church should thus have expressed itself in such a continuous manner during the centuries.
    The real social crimes committed by the Jews since they were "emancipated" through successive revolutionary explosions, the disastrous influence which they have exercised, as much in the economic life of the people as upon public morality, their persistent and perfidious activity in the religious domain for the destruction of Catholicism, are startling proofs that the popes acted with great understanding in taking the strictest measures efficiently to protect the Christians. They have known how to combine charitable gentleness with necessary severity. But the sequence of their decrees fixes the principles of a Christian solution of the Jewish question. It needs only to adapt to the special conditions of our times."


    Nothing Kas happens in a vacuum no matter how hard you wish this to be.

    Last edited by Samaritan; 06-06-2016 at 05:05 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Chilling study blames Catholic Church for the Holocaust




    A Moral Reckoning
    The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair
    By Daniel Jonah Goldhagen
    KNOPF; 344 PAGES; $25


    The subtitle of Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's new book, "A Moral Reckoning," comes directly to the point: "The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair." The Roman Catholic Church played an active role in centuries of anti-Semitism and knew from the start that the Jews were being persecuted then exterminated. The church, under the leadership of Pope Pius XII , did nothing to stop that Germanic frenzy of mass murder and genocide. If anything, according to Goldhagen's overwhelming study, the church encouraged participation in the Holocaust.

    Strong words for a church whose foundations have been rocked in recent years by the desire of women to be ordained priests, single-issue concerns such as abortion, birth control and gay rights, and the horror of its members at the willful and widespread misconduct of priests who sexually abuse altar boys. Now it is being blamed for the Holocaust.

    Goldhagen's book is the logical continuation of his earlier "Hitler's Willing Executioners," and it draws on such predecessors as "The Sword of Constantine" and "The Popes Against the Jews." Like these books, Goldhagen's draws a line in the blood and says that the church willingly crossed that line many times in previous centuries and during the Holocaust. These books are not argumentive so much as declamatory. They don't debate the question of the church's responsibility for the Shoah; this simply is a given. If you accept such a premise, you are in for a devastating reading experience. Be assured that this is a painfully thorough investigation; like any ghastly crime, its perpetrators stand bathed in the blood of innocents.

    Written with restrained fury, this book carefully sketches the long history of anti-Semitism in the church, based on the false premise that the Jews killed Jesus -- himself a Jew. It runs through the centuries of numerous pogroms, persecutions, enforced exiles, down to the systematic attempt to wipe out the Jewish "race" as part of Hitler's Final Solution. Although the pope had to know the details of the Jewish massacres in Poland, Eastern Europe and Russia -- from the very start -- he failed to speak out to Catholics who were busily exterminating the Jews, Goldhagen maintains.
    "What must a religion of love and goodness do to confront its history of hatred and harm?" Goldhagen asks. Pope Pius XII was so partial to the unholy German cause as to vigorously suppress an encyclical, Humanis Generis Unitas, which had been authorized by his predecessor, the equally anti-Semitic Pius XI.


    The encyclical would have spoken out against the persecution of any minority, without singling out the Jews. It would have been a watered-down protest but would have carried the weight of the Catholic Church behind it.
    But Pius, in his pre-papal role as Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, was responsible for the concordat the Vatican struck with Hitler in 1933, shortly after the dictator came to power. Throughout the Holocaust, Goldhagen writes, the only time that church officials spoke out was to protest the persecution of Jews who had converted to Catholicism. Otherwise, they cheerfully released to the Nazis genealogical information regarding who had been a Jew in the past,
    which the Gestapo used with murderous efficiency.
    Goldhagen attacks academics who ignore that "the Germans killed willingly, freely, and with no force behind their murderous actions." At the end of the war, "a few superhuman monsters -- Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Eichmann -- were left in focus. They garnered almost all the attention, diverting our gaze from the tens of millions of Germans who, in some way, willingly supported and embraced Nazis, Hitler, and the country's other leaders."
    These ordinary Germans, who made this regime and its crimes possible were, after the war, "miraculously transubstantiated overnight into beings who had been terrorized and coerced, and were unknowing. . . . Germans were divested of moral responsibility, pre-emptively exculpated because little or nothing was left to investigate morally."
    These and "other political and intellectual distortions" left the study of the Holocaust containing "virtually nothing about the central actors, the perpetrators of the mass murders." The only ones to investigate them extensively were "the German judges who, after the war, sat in judgment" of them. Again and again, the courts judged the perpetrators "guilty for having killed Jews. They judged the perpetrators guilty, according to the most stringent rules of evidence, for having killed because of their 'base motive' of 'race hatred.' "
    The message of this book is chillingly simple. The overwhelming majority of Germans hated the Jews, just as their parents had hated the Jews, because these were the people who put Christ to death. They had been told so by their church, by their spiritual leaders and teachers for thousands of years. The chill is hardened by the fact that Goldhagen claims no German ever suffered for refusing to kill or to harm a Jew. Numerous individuals rebelled, as did a few German churchmen, and none was harmed.
    By contrast, the Danish people and the Danish Lutheran Church actively spoke out against anti-Semitism, and the citizens went out of their way to hide and to safeguard Danish Jews from the German occupying troops -- without ever suffering reprisals, air raids or slaughters. Jews were saved by clergy and citizenry; they were hidden, disguised as altar boys and smuggled into neutral Sweden. In this, the Danes were joined by some priests in Italy and a few other European countries. In Slovakia and Croatia, however, Catholic priests and church leaders openly sided with the Nazis and even participated in the mass murders. German priests accompanied the killer SS Einsatzgruppen into Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Russia, hearing confessions and dispensing the sacraments to the Catholic killers.
    "A Moral Reckoning" is not just the story of how a church betrayed its members by encouraging them to the ultimate in savagery. It is an indictment of the church, its leaders and its pope for supporting a Holocaust that it had long provoked. Yet today the Roman Catholic Church is on the threshold of declaring Pope Pius XII to be a saint. This book will not make that sainthood easier to digest for believer and non-Christian alike.
    Goldhagen's restraint is eloquent, even when he portrays that great Catholic order of priests, the Society of Jesus, a.k.a. the Jesuits, as more anti-Semitic than the Nazis, requiring that candidates for the order be free from any Jewish blood for at least five generations. However, "in 1923 the Jesuits further 'moderated' their racism by reducing the blood purity requirement to four generations." Thus, to become a member of the Society of Jesus, one could not be related to Christ or any of his apostles or early followers.
    This is not a book for the ambivalent or the casually curious. It is a thundering indictment that makes no apologies and takes no prisoners.

    Now you can close your eyes to the truth or open them and become an intellectually honest person, it's up to you Kas.
    Last edited by Samaritan; 06-06-2016 at 10:51 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samaritan View Post
    " You can deny it all u want, but It will forever be a fact that without France and England Israel would have never existed..."
    Israel existed for a thousand years before there was ever a France or England.
    What is true is that Lebanon that never existed as a sovereign country called Lebanon in history would never have existed without France and England!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jolio View Post



    Take a bath and wash those stubby fingers jolio.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

  6. Thanks proisrael-nonisraeli thanked for this post
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    @Samaritan

    based on what?..based on an idiot Jew who wrote a book using his own imagination and analysis with hatred against the Catholic.....

    Samaritan your campaign against the Catholics will not work, your campaign has been going on for a thousand years...

    Sorry the Nazis do not believe in any God, they kill innocent Jew for their own reasons, not because the Bible said "the Jewish people killed Jesus"....

    The Christians are not responsible for the Holocaust, no one had a Bible in his hands when killing Jews, the Christians fought against Evil Hitler world war 2, Hitler had no religion and so was all Nazis, the Jewish people were helpless against Hitler and so was the Christians, no one could have saved Jews from being slaughtered because no one was stronger than Hitler, everyone was afraid of him be it Christian, Jew or any other religion...
    Religion has nothing to do with Evil.

    And it is a fact that without the Christians Israel would not have existed, sorry 200 thousands Jews were very much a minority to start a Jewish state among 3 million Palestinians, if it was not for Belfore and his promise and France and later the US, you would have never seen the promise land ever again...
    So be thankful for the Christians who helped forcing a Jewish state on the Palestinian majority.
    And Lebanon is much older than Israel, and Lebanese are real Lebanese, while Israelis come from Poland, Russia, Germany...Israelis are mixed bread from all abroad...only a few are from the Levant, the rest are Black, white, yellow, brown, purple people...who knows where the heck they come from...
    Lebanese are pure Lebanese....eat your heart out..
    Last edited by Kasarjian; 08-06-2016 at 10:35 AM.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasarjian View Post
    @Samaritan

    based on what?..based on an idiot Jew who wrote a book using his own imagination and analysis with hatred against the Catholic.....

    Samaritan your campaign against the Catholics will not work, your campaign has been going on for a thousand years...

    Sorry the Nazis do not believe in any God, they kill innocent Jew for their own reasons, not because the Bible said "the Jewish people killed Jesus"....

    The Christians are not responsible for the Holocaust, no one had a Bible in his hands when killing Jews, the Christians fought against Evil Hitler world war 2, Hitler had no religion and so was all Nazis, the Jewish people were helpless against Hitler and so was the Christians, no one could have saved Jews from being slaughtered because no one was stronger than Hitler, everyone was afraid of him be it Christian, Jew or any other religion...
    Religion has nothing to do with Evil.

    And it is a fact that without the Christians Israel would not have existed, sorry 200 thousands Jews were very much a minority to start a Jewish state among 3 million Palestinians, if it was not for Belfore and his promise and France and later the US, you would have never seen the promise land ever again...
    So be thankful for the Christians who helped forcing a Jewish state on the Palestinian majority.
    And Lebanon is much older than Israel, and Lebanese are real Lebanese, while Israelis come from Poland, Russia, Germany...Israelis are mixed bread from all abroad...only a few are from the Levant, the rest are Black, white, yellow, brown, purple people...who knows where the heck they come from...
    Lebanese are pure Lebanese....eat your heart out..
    It still does not change the fact that almost all Nazis were Christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proisrael-nonisraeli View Post
    It still does not change the fact that almost all Nazis were Christians.

    And Jews and everyone are Nazis...








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    Adolph Hitler and many of his top henchmen like Heinrich Himmler (SS chief and overseer of death camps), Joseph Goebbels (propaganda chief), Reinhard Heydrich (principle planner of the “Final Solution”) and Rudolf Hoess (architect and SS Commandant of Auschwitz), were baptized Catholics. Catholics comprised at least a third of Nazi Germany's military, police and security forces (22% of the SS), civil servants, judiciary, and concentration camp staff. The balance was Protestant.


    source http://holocaustroad.org/2009_10readings/SessionEleven.pdf

    Roberto Farinacci,
    member of Mussolini's Fascist Grand Council, while speaking in 1939 on "The Church and the Jews" declared: “We fascist Catholics consider the Jewish problem from a strictly political point of view. . . But it comforts our souls to know that if, as Catholics, we became anti-Semites, we owe it to the teachings that the Church has promulgated over the past twenty centuries.” (Emphasis added)
    Longstanding and widely held hostility toward Jews in Europe, therefore, helps explain why European Christians were generally indifferent* regarding Jewish mistreatment. Like German Christians, non-German Christians too had been conditioned by centuries of church sanctioned anti-


    Judaism which numbed their consciences to this
    particular form of injustice. Thus ethically desensitized, a significant number of Christians, including church leaders, were amenable to Nazi anti-Semitic activities, some even willing to participate in the killing. Most of the Holocaust’s victims lived in countries with large Roman Catholic populations and/or heads of state, e.g. Germany, Austria, Italy, Poland, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, France, Hungary, Slovakia and Croatia. And it should be noted that in Yugoslavia (Bosnia, Croatia,
    Rab and Serbia), not only were 80% of Yugoslav Jews murdered, but also 750,000 Orthodox Catholic Serbs; in Poland, not only were 90% of Polish Jews murdered, but also 3 million Polish Roman Catholics.


    When the SS mobile killing squads of the Einsatzgruppen entered Eastern Europe, their comparatively thin ranks were augmented by native Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Ukrainians. The particularly brutal Hilfspolizei, Ukrainian auxiliary police, hunted down Jews escaping from ghettos, murdering them without remorse. Without the willing participation of thousands of German and non-German Christians, including, most notoriously, Fr. Jozef Tiso, priest and fascist leader of the Slovakia ; Fr. Miroslav Filipovic, death camp commandant, and Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac of Croatia, all of whom were convicted of war crimes after the war (Tiso and Filipovic were executed), the Holocaust would have been significantly less effective in its lethality.


    James Carroll, author of Constantine’s Sword, describes the Church’s dilemma: “To imagine that the Catholic Church was craven in the face of the challenge posed by Adolf Hitler, that it failed to oppose him out of cowardice, is to ignore the brave history of Church resistance in the not too distant past (i.e. Kulturkampf) - this Church was not cowardly. Nor does the Church's anxiety about Bolshevism adequately account for its relatively more benign stance toward Nazism. Not even the other usual explanation, that the Church was too concerned with its own power and prerogatives to risk defending the Jews, is enough to account for what happened. No: Nazism, by tapping into a deep, ever- fresh reservoir of Christian hatred of Jews, was able to make an accomplice of the Catholic Church in history's worst crime, even though, by then, it was the last thing the Church consciously wanted to be.” (Emphasis mine)

    On April 8, 1965, Vatican Council II published its 16th document entitled Nostra Aetate, (“In Our Age”). With that single
    act the Church turned its back on 1900 years of official and unofficial anti-Judaic and anti-Semitic teachings and practices. The document directly repudiates and reverses the Church’s age-old teachings on Jews as Christ-killers and as rejected children of God. It declares that “mindful of her common patrimony with the Jews, and motivated by the gospel’s spiritual love and by no political considerations, she deplores the hatred, persecutions and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews at any time and from any source.

    Nostra Aetate specifically states:


    •  No collective guilt can be attributed to Jews, past or present, for the death of Jesus.
    •  God’s covenant with the Jewish People is valid and not revoked.
    •  The Jews are not forsaken or condemned by God.
    •  Anti-Semitism is a sin and has no place in Christianity.
      While scholars continue to debate the Church’s role during the Holocaust, most agree:
    •  Not all Christians were involved in the Holocaust,but those who were involved were Christians.
    • Christian anti-Judaism spawned and fueled Nazi anti-Semitism. Nazi racist policies had antecedents in Church history.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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  12. #100
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    • The Vatican failed to withdraw its official support for anti-Judaism and to condemn anti-Semitism until Vatican Council II in 1965.

      • The Reich Concordatneutered ”Catholic political opposition to Hitler and helped legitimize his regime.
      • Two popes,PiusXI and PiusXII,failed to denounce,directly or explicitly, Nazi racist policies.
      • TheVatican did not urge“passive resistance”to unjust racial laws and policies.
      • No Catholic Nazi or collaborator was excommunicated or refused sacraments.
      • The Vatican assisted former Nazis escape to South America after WWII .
      • Church leaders,for the most part,failed to provide“moral” leadership to assist the faithful in conscience formation.
      • Christian acts of courage and conscience were the exception, not the rule.




    Last edited by Samaritan; 08-06-2016 at 03:07 PM.
    Who would claim to be that, who was not.

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