07-03-2015, 10:09 PM
Al-Razi why you say it was the Muslim community's fault ? If a foreign superpower decided to manipulate the divisions to breakup the Middleeast how would it be the muslim community's fault?
Do you see Sunni and Alawites Turks killing each others? No! However invade the country, disturb the balance there, destroy the central state and make some foreign jihadists infiltrate the community and you'll see it worse than Iraq and Syria!
In lebanon the christian militias were as brutal as the current ISIS, and many (if not most) of their victims were christians, do you blame the christian community for it? During wars extremists take over!
Anyway you are talking about the muslim community as if muslims in middle eastern countries are comparable to European or to North Americans! Middle eastern countries didn't reach the enlightenment era yet!
07-03-2015, 10:30 PM
Mastoul wahdak ya hayawen. 3a2bel l minorities kelloun sawa w khosousan l alawites.
07-03-2015, 10:48 PM
You are spending lot of times online lately! Shou there is no Saudi clientele in this time of year?
07-03-2015, 11:26 PM
Hahaha mastoul w meshe. Wait for the bombs in Dahiye soon. We will spread Baklava.
08-03-2015, 06:47 AM
@Semitic Duwa; i think we can safely call you the other side of the same coin as jolio. You evade answering the tough questions.
08-03-2015, 07:24 AM
ISIS is not the whole Muslim community's fault anymore than the KKK was the entire Christian community's fault (and yes I also blame the militant Christian militias and any other fascist syndicates of that brand). My point was: even if you grant that the superpowers have ill intentions, its a red herring. Why is it possible that their bad intentions could materialize into war and destruction? What and who made that possible? The Muslims who were willing to become tools for ISIS made that conspiracy possible (or at least it was mutual). The educated British school girls, jihadi john, and so many other stories of middle class, stellar youth who had bright futures and threw it all away, do not get the benefit of our sympathies that would otherwise extend to Muslims actually living in the most degenerate conclave of the Muslim world (still untouched by the emancipation of the western enlightenment as you claimed). Sorry, those "moderate" western Muslims (who are really flocking to ISIS in droves) who are supposed to be the hope and savior of Islam do not get to seek shelter in contexts of social, cultural, and economic circumstances.
08-03-2015, 10:50 AM
Al Razi, what is your own opinion about the phenomenon of westerners joining ISIS?
BTW while the majority are originally muslims, many are new converts! They even managed to recruit some christian and shia lebanese! Something unimaginable due to the sectarian allegiance in our country!
10-03-2015, 02:30 AM
That is exactly complimentary to my point. The fact that a significant share of the recruitment pool is comprised of converts proves that alot of these kids are being poisoned by the absolutism of this faith. I have my theories about what makes them so susceptible (in a nutshell, postmodernism receives alot of the blame), but perhaps that is for another time. Anyways, it is quite clear to me this isn't a narrative about social and economic contexts. To get well educated, affluent, and moderate-minded people to follow some apocalyptic cult and implement its sadistic agenda with such accuracy and unwavering commitment proves how dangerous a literal reading of Islam can be. Muslims love to parade the "true, literal Islam" and assure everyone that a return to an authentic reading of the Quran is the only logically and morally necessary cure for Islamic terrorism. Well, ISIS is doing just that.
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10-03-2015, 04:51 AM
@YOSS: I am not referring to pre-islamic arabs, what I am saying is that Islam's backwardness is mostly due to the fact that it embodies the arab mentality, in this sense it's a form of arabism, which is why I called it "proto-arabism". Take the recent destruction of archeological sites and artefacts by ISIS, they all have clear precedents in Islamic history (the destruction of the library of Alexandria at the hands of 3amrou bin el 3as, the destruction of the Ka3ba's idols, the conversion of non-muslim shrines to mosques, etc), and they are totally legitimate from a theological POV. The same can be said for Islam's enmity towards freedom of speech and satire. But that's above the point, what I am saying is that Islam merely sanctifies the arab mentality which happens to be the real culprit here.
Let me give you an example: The most isolated tree on earth, l'Arbe du Ténéré, was located in NE Niger and was the only tree in a radius of 400 km (FYI "Ténéré" means "desert" in Tuareg, plural "Tinariwen")... Despite all this, it was knocked down by a drunk Libyan driver in 1973! I mean, think about it, a lone tree standing like, in the middle of the desert on its own, with no other tree around in a radius of 400 km... Ya3ne what are the odds??
^^ You see, this is what I mean when I speak of the arab mentality enshrined within Islam. I could just as well use another example, such as the recent news about King Tut's mask being damaged and fixed up with, yes you guessed it, glue (thereby causing permanent damage). This is the very same mentality which turned attempts at arab secularism into a sad joke, this is why it doesn't really matter whether "islamists" or "secularists" are in charge, in the end it's the same arab mentality messing things up.
Islam merely exports this arab trait to non-arabs (and that includes the mullocracy of Iran in case you're wondering).
I wish you were right YOSS, I sincerely do, but this isn't about beliefs, this is all about facts. Now you can accuse me of being polio's nemesis as much as you want, but repeating a lie a thousand times won't make it true.
10-03-2015, 07:30 AM
Hey Al Razi, when you have time, please share your views, and what do you propose as a solution?